EO 13101 Quarterly Teleconference
"Challenging Products"
April 29, 1999 11am Eastern Time
Participants:
AL Ops: Christine Houston
Kansas City Plant: John Ramirez
Los Alamos: Tom Starke, Jan Watson
Sandia, CA: Sally Raubfogel
Sandia,NM: Corinne Willison, Kylene Molley?
Chicago: Tony Bindokas
Fermi: Bob Johnson
Princeton Plasma Physics Lab: Tom McGeachen, Joyce Bitzer, Jeff McKiel
Fossil Energy: Strategic Petroleum Reserves: Janine Ferrell, Cathy Batee, Mike Huff, Angie Keller
FETC: Bruce Webster, Ab Moan (?), Tom Gruber (Credit Card coordinator)
GOLDEN &endash; NREL: Don Carlile
HQ P2: Susan Weber, JJ Morgan, Amy Lance
HQ Printing: Bob Stiefel
IDAHO: Darnell Evans, Dave Janke, Michelle Wiest
Pittsburgh Naval Reactors: Claire Welty, Mike Rasanich, Greg Saul, Jeff Bullion
NEVADA: Carol Shelton
Oak Ridge Ops: Reps for Anna, _________?
ORNL: David Wasserman, Dewayne Foust?
TJNAF: Carter ___(?) , Linda Evan, Danny Loy (reps for Mark Waite)
Oakland: Dave Osugi
ETEC: Satish Shah, Ravnesh Amar will be joining
LBNL: Shelley Worsham
SLAC: Alan Saltzberg, Rich Cellamare
Ohio: Kim Tate
Fernald: Alisa Rhodes
RL: Anna Beard, Sandra Cannon, Donna Merry, Mary Betsch, ? Lee
SR: Penny Fulghum, Mike Cox
SWPA: Scott Burns, ______? (for Malinovsky)
Maxwell Airforce base: Lt. Col. Dianna Ball
SC: sitting in for Arnie is ________?
EPA: Dana Arnold
Jim Fazzio, Defense Supply Center, Richmond DLA
11:15am
I. WEBER:
The White House Closing the Circle Awards were recently announced. Of 15 civilians awards, DOE won three.
Congratulations to everyone, especially:
1) RL for their AP Program. Nomination form was extremely impressive. We'll post this on our Web site. Richland Team members:
Anna Beard, Sandra Beardsley (PNNL Custodial Services), Lori Beeler, Mary Betsch, Robert Boykin, Sandra Cannon, Wanda Couchman (PNNL Contracts), Doug Gale (PNNL Contracts), Dennis Houston, Jacqueline Klug (DOE-RL), Sandra McInturff, Donna Merry, Dennis Moore, and David Nichols>
2) Kent Hancock for his "visionary leadership for the DOE P2 program".
3) Susan Weber for "Affirmative Procurement in the Department of Energy". [Though she declined to mention herself, Susan Weber was also a Closing the Circle Award winner].
TOPICS: Specific items that do not meet the CAP (cost, availability, performance) criteria.
A. Carpeting : David Wasserman (Oak Ridge National Lab)
A few months ago, ORNL wanted to redo carpeting.
- Contacted Image Industry, but found they do not sell for commercial applications.
- Collins and Aikman Floorcoverings in Dalton, GA listed as recycled manufacturer, but only the backing is recycled, not the fibers.
- EPA-web site also listed Morton, Oar in SC. They only sell fibers, not carpet.
- Talisman mills in Wisconsin sells recycled-PVC bottle carpet but cheapest is $14/sq.yard.
Equipment people at ORNL pay $5/sq.yard for virgin carpet, so, even though it's not the highest quality, they use it for 10+ years before replacing it.
* Cannot justify the cost difference for buying recycled-content carpet.
Sandra Cannon (PNNL): Last year in WA, Kitsap County installed Image Carpet, brandname "Habitat" Commercial Carpet 100% post-consumer PET (plastic soda bottles) carpet.
Doesn't know price.
See also Shaw Contract Flooring.
Tom McGeachen (PPPL): Just purchased Shaw
Solution Q carpet install price included ripping up old carpet and shipping out at Union rates = $38/sq.yard for 25% PET bottle in the pile &endash; commercial grade
PPPL has completed a small renovation project. This was for only 80 square yards (SY) of carpet.
The low bid was a Shaw contractor. The total installed cost of $3050 [unit cost of $38.13/Sq. Yard] included the following at NJ union rates:
- Removal of the old carpet and disposal of the old carpet
- Subfloor preparation
- Installation of Shaw commercial carpet style Camden Harbor using the glue down method.
- Installation of cove base
- Moving of all furniture
This Shaw product line is known as EcoSolution Q which has nylon pile containing combination of recycled post-consumer & post industrial content in the amount of 25%. Backing contains no recycled content.
To send back the old 80 sq. yards to Shaw, PPPL would have had to pay removal and shipping costs and received no credit for this from the contractor.
United Carpet recyclers wanted 1,000 sq. yards minimum to recycle.
Carpet has only been in place for one month, so can't comment on quality.
http://www.shawcontract.com/recycling/index.html
B. Antifreeze : Dave Janke, INEEL
(208) 526-6327
INEEL Still uses 127 buses, 908 heavy vehicles
They don't use much antifreeze. Cars are sold after 100,000 miles. Antifreeze not changed before they're sold.
Mechanics add fleet-guard protector.
300 gallons of propylene glycol bought per year for broken tubes etc.
Company rep said: Filtered antifreeze still has heavy metals therefore use only osmosis distilled antifreeze
12 manufacturers listed in EPA list, but only 2 of these provide distilled antifreeze.
- The closest, in AZ, had a disconnected number.
- The Erie, PA vendor said they don't sell distilled antifreeze, but will sell the equipment.
- A Salt Lake City company mixed filtered with distilled, sold as distilled, was caught, and was then put out of business.
So, ID exempted antifreeze from the ID AP Program.
Weber: Others' experiences?
Jim Fazzio: (DLA) Defense Supply Centers: We sell antifreeze recycling equipment. Maybe we can work out some system since you guys don't use that much.
H.E. Rowland is a DLA Rep(?).
C. OIL : Darnell Evans (INEEL)
Suppliers must prove 25% or more re-refined oil. Must show conformance to API and military specs. Must meet performance for all gasoline and diesel engines.
Chrysler, Ford, GMC all say engine warranties still valid after use of re-refined oil.
Use viscosity grades 5W30, 5W40
Pricing for virgin and re-refined from suppliers
DLA and Safety-Kleen also for highest usage oils. DLA costs less than our local virgin oil.
If we go direct to Safety- Kleen, it's more expensive than local virgin, but less than local re-refined.
Local suppliers must ship in oil ; we must pay for shipping. Mostly use bulk oil from Defense Supply Center.
OD activity code, how to go about buying etc is being worked out.
We use our P-Cards at Defense Supply Center.
Need different oils added to DSC/DLA: 6month lag from time DSC decides to add oil to when oil is actually in stock.
Fazzio (DSC/DLA): We added more oils: straight 30 and 40 weight oils to the closed-loop program.
Q: Is DSC/DLA looking at adding 5W30?
Fazzio: Available on regular program, but not closed loop, nor will it be anytime soon.
Closed-loop program prices are substantially lower than on regular program.
Wiest (INEEL): Yes, they have a contract with a firm to take the used oil. If the contract stops, or when it expires, they will move to closed-loop system, but for now, they're in a contract.
D. TIRES : Dave Janke, INEEL
Per 1996 Guidance, we buy all tires through GSA, both new and retreads.
Buses, heavy-trucks cannot use retreads per DOT regulation 393.75 Section D (T?) DOT says retreads cannot be used on steering axle of buses or heavy trucks.
Retread tires on cars had to be put in the garage regularly to correct balance and vibration issues so the $5/tire difference from retread to virgin tire wasn't worth it. We will revisit the issue this fall using info from other DOE facilities.
Dana Arnold (EPA): Response to legal statement:
Legal requirement is limited to passenger busses. It is not true for trucks. There is no data showing that retreads on trucks cause any problems. Standard industry practice is to put new tires on front of car/bus/truck, then move retreads to back. BUT this is not the law.
GSA program offered retreads for almost all vehicles. They had extensive testing program to ensure high quality. A few years ago, GSA shut down their program. Now, only truck tires are offered.
GSA: heavy-duty, medium duty and buses only are serviced.
I [what man said this??] can find out who in the tire industry has retread tires for light &endash;duty trucks.
John Griffin, ID: As part of our Integrated Safety Management , we use SARs from nuclear operations standards., which may not be the same as other standards.
Dana Arnold (EPA): This is a legitimate performance reason for not using retreads, but you should make sure there aren't other options. For example, the DOD carries warheads and other weapons on heavy-duty flatbeds that use retread tires. You need to verify that this really is a performance issue.
E. PAINT : Darnell Evans, INEEL
Latex paints available: white with 20% post-consumer; Dark colors with 50% post-consumer content.
Sherwin Williams, Bennet Paints said none of the major painter uses reprocessed paint.
The 4 vendors on the EPA list were either out of business or did not provide reprocessed paint. We cannot find a vendor for reprocessed paint.
Sandra Cannon (PNNL) found several:
1. Paint Solutions did King Dome in Seattle with 100% post-consumer paint at $7-$8/gallon for 10 gallons. Found to cover as well as new paint for lower cost.
2. EccoGlass Paint - primer/sealer for cementitious surfaces (cement block)
3. Banner Manufacturer in Denver has 10 colors of reprocessed and consolidated interior and exterior flat latex paint with 50 - 60% post-consumer content.
4. E-paint out of Sacramento
F. Recycling Containers : NREL: Don Carlile (replacing Anita Oswald)
2 cans/ bins at each work station. 1 for non-recycled, 1 for primarily paper waste which is collected every 2 weeks.
People are pretty diligent about using the cans and recycling paper.
McGeachen (PPPL): Drums on wheels - have you found larger containers /tubs for paper that contain post-consumer content?
Don Carlile (NREL): No, our biggest is a ~4 gallon bin (8" x 1'x1') from Continental[?]
Cannon (PNNL): Rubbermaid did have 25% post-consumer content small containers, but when we went to purchase them last year, the highest recycled percentage they had was 10% and Rubbermaid said they couldn't guarantee even the 10%.
Continental Manufacturing Co.
13,330 Lakefront Drive
Earth City, MO 63045
Phone: (314) 770-9949 or (800) 325-1051
FAX: (314) 770-9938
G. PAPER : Tom McGeachen (PPPL)
Joyce Bitzer handles all the orders.
We made an 8x11 list of all the paper types available. We're giving it out in the stock room, plus sending it to the 20-25 administrative assistants who order paper.
30% post-consumer content paper now used. Have problems with only one of over 300 printers. The payroll printer jams when huge amounts are sent through.
Been using Great White since 11/98.
Great White has some 10% post-consumer content for 37, 40lb paper and glossy or matte for ink jet.
90 brightness, 24lb for special printing needs
$2.57/ream &endash; PPPL cost
$2.50/ream for delivered paper costs
$ 2.14/ream[?] - DOE cost [but is that the price for 24lb? Sounds like 20lb. For instance, PNNL is paying $2.98/ream for 24 lb paper]
30% paper from GSA costs $2.14/ream
Bob Stiefel (HQ): All paper via GPO on an as-needed basis to point of use.
30% Great White being used. Very satisfied. Have had NO complaints with the new paper. GPO has offices throughout the country, so everyone should have access
Labs order paper from the GPO, too.
Kim Tate (Ohio): Contacted GPO in Washington regarding delivered paper. She said they were focussed on DC area, maybe because there isn't a GPO office near her. GPO wasn't interested in shipping to Kim. (937) 865-4840. Kim now buys from Boise Cascade and has been satisfied.
Stiefel (HQ): Jim Bradley, customer service rep., is looking to increase distribution area outside of DC. Ken Morgan is contact in Ohio. GPO usually cheaper.
Savanah River: Experience of others with using the SR contract for paper?
JohnRamirez (Kansas City Plant): We've been very satisfied using that contract. Cost is down. We've had no problems.
H. Plastic Trash Liners : Tom McGeachen (PPPL)
PPPL uses 5600 trash bags per year. PPPL wants clear bags to make sure people aren't throwing trash in the recycled dumpsters. 55 gal drum and trash size bag used at PPPL.
10% pre-consumer (mill scraps).
Current is Rubbermaid with NO reycled content. Rubbermaid does not carry any trash bags with recovered content.
Prices from APCO:
Small (7 to 10 gallon): approximately 4 cents per bag (minimum order 15,000 bags)
Medium (20 to 25 gallon): approximately 11 cents per bag (minimum order 3,750 bags)
Large (55 gal drum): 43 cents per bag (minimum order 1,500 bags)
GSA MarketTips Catalog: BioCorp USA company that sells recycled trash bags. Anyone have any experience with these?
Dave Janke, INEEL: Checked trash bags a while ago, but could only find green or dark brown bags with recovered. Manufacturers put coloring in to hide imperfections. Maybe we could convince them that isn't necessary.
Alisa Rhodes (Fernald): Mound, Ohio, has been using, for 2 years, a vendor that sells clear, recycled plastic trash bags. She'll send JJ the info on their vendor. (513) 648-4968
Corinne Willison (Sandia/NM): We have found suppliers for clear recycled, but at a considerable price premium. She'll look back for the vendor name and send the info to JJ.
I. NUMEROUS ITEMS : Sandra Cannon (PNNL):
3 ring binders, esp. white ones with clear plastic front sheet.
We did find them with recycled, but cost much more than virgin.
1" spine: $1 for virgin, $3 for recycled.
Dana Arnold (EPA) found recycled for 6.28 for the 3" binders at GSA, but the virgin binders were twice the price.
Cannon: We cannot order through GSA per GSA's statement that PNNL cannot buy directly through GSA. PNNL has to find a supplier who will supply the GSA products for the GSA price. Boise Cascade is beginning to fill that role for PNNL on a limited basis and says they will continue to work with Cannon to bring into their system the products PNNL needs.
Desk calendars, Franklin-Covey, binders with refills, At-A-Glance calendars are not available with recycled from Covey, but ARE available with recycled from GSA (per Susan Weber's experience with Covey)
Dana Arnold (EPA): JWOD (catalog) offers some of those products. Javitz, Wagner, O'Day (Blind and severely handicapped) offer a number of recycled office products. Dana will send info to JJ.
Stiefel (HQ): Unicor &endash; federal prison industries &endash; has a number of recycled products.
He will send info and URL to JJ.
Dana Arnold (EPA): You can browse the GSA Advantage system without an ordering number. The green arrows for recycled, yellow arrows for handicapped products, tree symbol for Environmentally Preferable Products, BUT NOT all recycled items are properly identified as recycled. Also, recycled percentages are not always up to date.
DESK PADS and engineering pads : PNNL can't find recycled version.
Pittsburgh: Purchasing guy thinks most items are carried in GSA Advantage.
Lab notebooks
No one had information on notebooks.
LINED THREE-HOLE PUNCHED PAPER
Arnold (EPA): Don't know if GSA carries this, because this had been a point of contention. In the past, they have not carried the 3-hole punch copier paper with recycled content.
Manila Folders
$6/100 for recycled vs $3/100 for virgin manila folders.
Corinne Willison (Sandia, NM): Yes, they have found folders w/ recycled. Doesn't know exact prices, but can send the info to JJ.
Vendors carry 10 to 100% recycled content in their folders.
PPPL does use recycled with 10% post-consumer content
POST-IT NOTES
3x5 inch Post-it notes with lines do not contain recycled content.
McGeachen: PPPL buys all office supplies from Staples. Sees nothing in the Staples catalog with 30% post-consumer recycled, though some are 100% recycled content, most are only 20% post-consumer for Post-it Notes.
Arnold (EPA): JWAD has unlined 3x5 with recycled, but only 4x6 with lines. Prices on-line.
TYPEWRITER PRINTER RIBBONS, RE-INKED RELOADED
Re-inked ribbons caused problems, so vendor no longer carried re-inked ribbons.
Cannon: used EPA list to find more vendors. Boise carried reloadable, but does not use recycled symbol
McGeachen (PPPL): We use almost all laser printers now; typewriters only for forms. 77 cents per ribbon for correctable typewriter ribbon.
J. OTHER ITEMS:
Bruce Webster: Is anyone recycling 3-ring binders? Donating these?
Weber: DOE has a materials exchange Web site through which excess DOE property/materials can be made available to other DOE sites.
Jan Watson: When people here at LANL have excess virgin binders, they send an e-mail to all the administrative staff announcing that they have binders available at no cost. Because people here prefer the virgin binders to the recycled binders, they go quickly.
McGeachen (PPPL): Old binders are put back into stock room at PPPL so people can take them and reuse them at the lab or wherever.
Cannon: PNNL had a glut of binders. We started a program to encourage people to reuse the binders. See article on Binders for Pansies ["Putting Old Binders Back to Work"?] ESP News [article just being written but it should be on the Internet in a week]
Rhodes (Fernald): Via Excess Property, we donate our binders to schools who desperately need these kinds of items.
CLOSING
Cannon: Please send message to JJ on what you think the REAL problems products are so we can prepare for our conference in November.
Q: DOE goals for 2000 etc? How can we reach 100%? Richardson's memo said 100% by 2005. What's up?
Weber'½s response: Richardson's memo was draft for review. Our goal was 100% for this year for all items. We are renewing our goal to include all new EPA-items as well as the currently designated items.
Next Teleconference:
August 26, 1999 Thursday 11 am Eastern
AP Issues are tentative topic for August teleconference.
"Reasonable" Price
True justification
Micropurchases
Procurement people at headquarters will have to be consulted for their participation on this topic.
Other topics for future teleconferences:
Wiest: ID: Construction projects and items
McGeachen seconded that
Weber: verified Worsham will be on next conference call to discuss construction products
BUT construction topics may be put off until January since several sites feel the issues above (e.g., justifications) are more pressing. November's teleconference will be held during the 1999 DOE Pollution Prevention Conference with manufacturers of certain EPA-designated items on-line.
